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	<title>Comments on: Still think you can beat the market?</title>
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	<link>http://timharford.com/2012/11/still-think-you-can-beat-the-market/</link>
	<description>The Undercover Economist</description>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2012/11/still-think-you-can-beat-the-market/comment-page-1/#comment-4244</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 22:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=2601#comment-4244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You see a similar phenomenon in the sports betting community.  People drive themselves crazy looking for hidden patterns and emerging trends (e.g. &quot;Road underdogs coming off of a &gt;10 point loss against a non-divisional opponent are 75% against the point spread the following week if the over/under is at least 48 points&quot;).

And they&#039;re nearly always disappointed when that historical pattern fails to materialize in the future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You see a similar phenomenon in the sports betting community.  People drive themselves crazy looking for hidden patterns and emerging trends (e.g. &#8220;Road underdogs coming off of a &gt;10 point loss against a non-divisional opponent are 75% against the point spread the following week if the over/under is at least 48 points&#8221;).</p>
<p>And they&#8217;re nearly always disappointed when that historical pattern fails to materialize in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: lburgler</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2012/11/still-think-you-can-beat-the-market/comment-page-1/#comment-4108</link>
		<dc:creator>lburgler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 18:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=2601#comment-4108</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What is wrong with the economics department at the University of Chicago?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is wrong with the economics department at the University of Chicago?</p>
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		<title>By: Sca</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2012/11/still-think-you-can-beat-the-market/comment-page-1/#comment-4099</link>
		<dc:creator>Sca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=2601#comment-4099</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tim, have you heard of the &quot;Sell in May&quot; anomaly? Stock returns are much higher from November to April semester than from May to October. This weird anomaly is as strong out-of-sample than it is in sample. See http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2115197]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, have you heard of the &#8220;Sell in May&#8221; anomaly? Stock returns are much higher from November to April semester than from May to October. This weird anomaly is as strong out-of-sample than it is in sample. See <a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2115197" rel="nofollow">http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2115197</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2012/11/still-think-you-can-beat-the-market/comment-page-1/#comment-4098</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=2601#comment-4098</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You need to read the article at http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1678726]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You need to read the article at <a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1678726" rel="nofollow">http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1678726</a></p>
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		<title>By: jdbutters</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2012/11/still-think-you-can-beat-the-market/comment-page-1/#comment-4090</link>
		<dc:creator>jdbutters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=2601#comment-4090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The EMH is not &quot;almost true&quot;. To say this is to conflate model with data.

Data: It is very hard to beat the markets.

Because it is very hard to beat the markets, it is &quot;almost true&quot; that it is impossible to beat the markets, as proponents of the EMH might assert. But the fact that this implication of the model is &quot;almost&quot; (i.e., not) true suggests that the model fails to capture some vital element of reality. 

I often see the assertion that markets are impossible to beat being conflated with the EMH, but they are not the same thing. EMH has always struck me as being redundant: social phenomena in general are so hard to predict that it is not surprising that markets are hard to predict. A market-specific model is not required to explain this observation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The EMH is not &#8220;almost true&#8221;. To say this is to conflate model with data.</p>
<p>Data: It is very hard to beat the markets.</p>
<p>Because it is very hard to beat the markets, it is &#8220;almost true&#8221; that it is impossible to beat the markets, as proponents of the EMH might assert. But the fact that this implication of the model is &#8220;almost&#8221; (i.e., not) true suggests that the model fails to capture some vital element of reality. </p>
<p>I often see the assertion that markets are impossible to beat being conflated with the EMH, but they are not the same thing. EMH has always struck me as being redundant: social phenomena in general are so hard to predict that it is not surprising that markets are hard to predict. A market-specific model is not required to explain this observation.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2012/11/still-think-you-can-beat-the-market/comment-page-1/#comment-4088</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=2601#comment-4088</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Britonomist

You miss the point. True, there is no specific asset pricing model tied to the EMH. But *some* model is necessary. Without an asset pricing model the EMH is meaningless. The EMH is an explanation for the RWH. And the explanation is that news is random and all relevant information is &quot;fully reflected&quot; in the prices. It is meaningless to talk of information being &quot;fully reflected&quot; in the prices in the absence of a specific model.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Britonomist</p>
<p>You miss the point. True, there is no specific asset pricing model tied to the EMH. But *some* model is necessary. Without an asset pricing model the EMH is meaningless. The EMH is an explanation for the RWH. And the explanation is that news is random and all relevant information is &#8220;fully reflected&#8221; in the prices. It is meaningless to talk of information being &#8220;fully reflected&#8221; in the prices in the absence of a specific model.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Roberts</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2012/11/still-think-you-can-beat-the-market/comment-page-1/#comment-4025</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2012 21:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I wish the EMH were a little more accurate.  Then maybe some of Wall Street&#039;s Masters of the Universe would give up trading and use their talents on something more productive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish the EMH were a little more accurate.  Then maybe some of Wall Street&#8217;s Masters of the Universe would give up trading and use their talents on something more productive.</p>
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		<title>By: Britonomist</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2012/11/still-think-you-can-beat-the-market/comment-page-1/#comment-4018</link>
		<dc:creator>Britonomist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2012 19:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=2601#comment-4018</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;So you&#039;re you saying that the asset pricing model bit is unnecessary? The EMH is just a Random Walk Hypothesis? Surely this is a major re-statement of the EMH.&quot;

Not at all, that has always been the EMH, there is no specific asset pricing model tied to it. You may be thinking of CAPM, or ABT, but they are, not the same thing as the EMH, they are separate models.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So you&#8217;re you saying that the asset pricing model bit is unnecessary? The EMH is just a Random Walk Hypothesis? Surely this is a major re-statement of the EMH.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not at all, that has always been the EMH, there is no specific asset pricing model tied to it. You may be thinking of CAPM, or ABT, but they are, not the same thing as the EMH, they are separate models.</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron Hoppe</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2012/11/still-think-you-can-beat-the-market/comment-page-1/#comment-4004</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron Hoppe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2012 16:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=2601#comment-4004</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[****For the rest of us, beating the market remains an elusive dream.****

LoL.  Isn&#039;t that the reason it&#039;s called the market--because it is defined by the majority of transactions?  Isn&#039;t that the &quot;magic&quot; of capitalism--that everyone gets to pretend he or she is special while actually never doing or thinking anything special at all?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>****For the rest of us, beating the market remains an elusive dream.****</p>
<p>LoL.  Isn&#8217;t that the reason it&#8217;s called the market&#8211;because it is defined by the majority of transactions?  Isn&#8217;t that the &#8220;magic&#8221; of capitalism&#8211;that everyone gets to pretend he or she is special while actually never doing or thinking anything special at all?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2012/11/still-think-you-can-beat-the-market/comment-page-1/#comment-3988</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=2601#comment-3988</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TH:  &quot;The EMH has various forms, but in brief its message is very simple: an individual investor cannot reliably outperform financial markets.&quot;

So, are you saying that the asset pricing model bit is unnecessary? The EMH is just a Random Walk Hypothesis? Surely this is a major re-statement of the EMH. In this re-statement
of yours. where does the &quot;efficient&quot; in the &quot;Efficient Market Hypothesis&quot; come from?

TH:  &quot;If it was obvious that the stock market would rise tomorrow, investors would buy shares immediately and the stock market would rise today instead.&quot;

Can you explain how this happens in the presence of model heterogeneity, the difficulty of always being able to distinguish information from noise, investors trying to exploit others whom they perceive to be noise-traders, herding,  investor short-termism, limited capital, the failure of the law of iterated expectations to hold (eg Keynesian beauty contests)?

You could say that your claim only holds in the absence of these issues. True enough. But then what have your claims got to do with the world we inhabit? 

Do you believe it is ethically all right for economists, in their role as public intellectuals, to make claims that are demonstrably at variance with the existing state of knowledge in their discipline?

You could defend yourself by saying that you are neither an academic economist nor an intellectual, merely a journalist. Still, I&#039;ve always thought the FT held itself to higher ethical and intellectual standards than, say, the economics department of the University of Chicago.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TH:  &#8220;The EMH has various forms, but in brief its message is very simple: an individual investor cannot reliably outperform financial markets.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, are you saying that the asset pricing model bit is unnecessary? The EMH is just a Random Walk Hypothesis? Surely this is a major re-statement of the EMH. In this re-statement<br />
of yours. where does the &#8220;efficient&#8221; in the &#8220;Efficient Market Hypothesis&#8221; come from?</p>
<p>TH:  &#8220;If it was obvious that the stock market would rise tomorrow, investors would buy shares immediately and the stock market would rise today instead.&#8221;</p>
<p>Can you explain how this happens in the presence of model heterogeneity, the difficulty of always being able to distinguish information from noise, investors trying to exploit others whom they perceive to be noise-traders, herding,  investor short-termism, limited capital, the failure of the law of iterated expectations to hold (eg Keynesian beauty contests)?</p>
<p>You could say that your claim only holds in the absence of these issues. True enough. But then what have your claims got to do with the world we inhabit? </p>
<p>Do you believe it is ethically all right for economists, in their role as public intellectuals, to make claims that are demonstrably at variance with the existing state of knowledge in their discipline?</p>
<p>You could defend yourself by saying that you are neither an academic economist nor an intellectual, merely a journalist. Still, I&#8217;ve always thought the FT held itself to higher ethical and intellectual standards than, say, the economics department of the University of Chicago.</p>
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