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	<title>Comments on: Why social marketing doesn’t work</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timharford.com/2011/07/why-social-marketing-doesnt-work/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timharford.com/2011/07/why-social-marketing-doesnt-work/</link>
	<description>The Undercover Economist</description>
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		<title>By: Dan Calladine</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2011/07/why-social-marketing-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Calladine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 15:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=1972#comment-353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d argue that it can work, but that Duncan Watts did not do it well.  If you look at his Twitter (as has been pointed out) he uses social media very rarely, did not offer a good incentive or call to action, and did not create a conversation (for example asking what people thought).  He&#039;s a bad example.
Earlier this year I interviewed a publishing PR on my blog, and he makes it very clear that, if you know what you&#039;re doing, it can work very well indeed:
http://digital-examples.blogspot.com/2011/05/5-questions-with-publishing-pr.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d argue that it can work, but that Duncan Watts did not do it well.  If you look at his Twitter (as has been pointed out) he uses social media very rarely, did not offer a good incentive or call to action, and did not create a conversation (for example asking what people thought).  He&#8217;s a bad example.<br />
Earlier this year I interviewed a publishing PR on my blog, and he makes it very clear that, if you know what you&#8217;re doing, it can work very well indeed:<br />
<a href="http://digital-examples.blogspot.com/2011/05/5-questions-with-publishing-pr.html" rel="nofollow">http://digital-examples.blogspot.com/2011/05/5-questions-with-publishing-pr.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Peter Bedson</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2011/07/why-social-marketing-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-352</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Bedson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 05:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=1972#comment-352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the evidence looks very much like the effect of survivor bias.  Someone with lots of followers will also have lots of followers who also have followers - because they have already followed someone who has lots of followers.  So in effect they buy more tickets in the lottery but it is still a random process therefore trying to trigger a viral tweet is like buying lottery tickets as a pension plan - pretty much doomed to failure.  I dont buy lottery tickets even though I know personally two people who have won life-changing sums because I know that my network is much bigger than it appears and I probably know at least as many people who have the same incredibly rare disease it is just that not many incredibly rare diseases cause you to buy new Aston-Martins so I have not noticed their plight!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the evidence looks very much like the effect of survivor bias.  Someone with lots of followers will also have lots of followers who also have followers &#8211; because they have already followed someone who has lots of followers.  So in effect they buy more tickets in the lottery but it is still a random process therefore trying to trigger a viral tweet is like buying lottery tickets as a pension plan &#8211; pretty much doomed to failure.  I dont buy lottery tickets even though I know personally two people who have won life-changing sums because I know that my network is much bigger than it appears and I probably know at least as many people who have the same incredibly rare disease it is just that not many incredibly rare diseases cause you to buy new Aston-Martins so I have not noticed their plight!</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Brodie</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2011/07/why-social-marketing-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-351</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Brodie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=1972#comment-351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a nice reality check on how difficult it is to get a tweet to go viral. 

However, it&#039;s got pretty much squat to do with effective social media marketing.

Perhaps there are some charlatans somewhere in agencies telling big, foolish companies that the key to social media is viral campaigns and that they have the magic dust to make it work.

But back in the real world, everyday businesses and individuals are sing social media in far more mundane (but rather more predictably effective) ways to engage with their customers, build relationships, and eventually to sell more of their stuff.

In this world, viral tweets are an irrelevance, thankfully.

Ian]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a nice reality check on how difficult it is to get a tweet to go viral. </p>
<p>However, it&#8217;s got pretty much squat to do with effective social media marketing.</p>
<p>Perhaps there are some charlatans somewhere in agencies telling big, foolish companies that the key to social media is viral campaigns and that they have the magic dust to make it work.</p>
<p>But back in the real world, everyday businesses and individuals are sing social media in far more mundane (but rather more predictably effective) ways to engage with their customers, build relationships, and eventually to sell more of their stuff.</p>
<p>In this world, viral tweets are an irrelevance, thankfully.</p>
<p>Ian</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Dale</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2011/07/why-social-marketing-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-350</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 07:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=1972#comment-350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great discussion. Something about the psychology of social media (the power of intermittant rewards) keeps us obsessing about numbers of followers etc. An easy trap to fall into especially when feeling vulnerable with a new book out (I am in that zone right now). My strategy is to keep doing other things to keep life interesting and prevent obsessing about numbers of readers etc. Not necessarily easy...but possible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion. Something about the psychology of social media (the power of intermittant rewards) keeps us obsessing about numbers of followers etc. An easy trap to fall into especially when feeling vulnerable with a new book out (I am in that zone right now). My strategy is to keep doing other things to keep life interesting and prevent obsessing about numbers of readers etc. Not necessarily easy&#8230;but possible.</p>
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		<title>By: CdrJameson</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2011/07/why-social-marketing-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-349</link>
		<dc:creator>CdrJameson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=1972#comment-349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Social Media Marketing success is another example of Taleb distribution. Most fails miserably, some very few succeed incredibly.

People then look at the single success and copy arbitrary aspects of it, ignoring the many, many attempts that had those aspects but failed miserably.

This is because it&#039;s difficuly to set out to build something that, primarily, is &#039;lucky&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Social Media Marketing success is another example of Taleb distribution. Most fails miserably, some very few succeed incredibly.</p>
<p>People then look at the single success and copy arbitrary aspects of it, ignoring the many, many attempts that had those aspects but failed miserably.</p>
<p>This is because it&#8217;s difficuly to set out to build something that, primarily, is &#8216;lucky&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Gibbins</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2011/07/why-social-marketing-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-348</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Gibbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2011 13:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=1972#comment-348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s a fact that planning for viral success is like trying to predict the future, many successful campaigns of course are actually not campaigns at all and were individual success stories which corporates piggy backed on to ride the viral wave.

Those campaigns that were successful are as you say relatively small in number compared to everything that&#039;s out there.  And emulating social campaigns is often doomed to failure, the social web isn&#039;t very tolerant for copycat marketing.

I&#039;m not sure the evidence that Twitter didn&#039;t help him to sell a book is a good one, generally speaking when the results you are looking for are short term the way the tools are used are not so effective. Too sales focused.  Building a loyal following or tribe as Seth Godin might put it is not done overnight.  For that following to read the book and share their thoughts with others might take longer still but many a book has been successful through word of mouth and social just accelerates that process (just not necessarily at the time the author wishes; this doesn&#039;t mean he should abandon his flock)

Also we shouldn&#039;t look at social marketing as just being viral success.

Relationship marketing through social channels, effective CRM through a social outreach program, conversations and insights, all fall under the social marketing umbrella and all produce measurable results.

Not every organisation is wasting marketing dollars with the dream of viral success or there would be a large pile of unemployed marketing managers out there.

We&#039;re all getting used to the rapid evolution of social, the ways to manage it and nurture it across the organisation, and varying dependant on the culture and size of the business.

Saying that social marketing doesn&#039;t work is too large a statement but warning against the dream of viral success and encouraging marketing teams to measure I can agree with whole heartedly.

The numbers don&#039;t always go down; if you&#039;re measuring the right numbers.  And whilst it&#039;s true that we can now measure a lot, maybe we can sometimes be distracted by all this data and not see the wood for the trees.

As someone recently said at a conference I attended &#039;Analytics can&#039;t save us from stupidity&#039;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a fact that planning for viral success is like trying to predict the future, many successful campaigns of course are actually not campaigns at all and were individual success stories which corporates piggy backed on to ride the viral wave.</p>
<p>Those campaigns that were successful are as you say relatively small in number compared to everything that&#8217;s out there.  And emulating social campaigns is often doomed to failure, the social web isn&#8217;t very tolerant for copycat marketing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure the evidence that Twitter didn&#8217;t help him to sell a book is a good one, generally speaking when the results you are looking for are short term the way the tools are used are not so effective. Too sales focused.  Building a loyal following or tribe as Seth Godin might put it is not done overnight.  For that following to read the book and share their thoughts with others might take longer still but many a book has been successful through word of mouth and social just accelerates that process (just not necessarily at the time the author wishes; this doesn&#8217;t mean he should abandon his flock)</p>
<p>Also we shouldn&#8217;t look at social marketing as just being viral success.</p>
<p>Relationship marketing through social channels, effective CRM through a social outreach program, conversations and insights, all fall under the social marketing umbrella and all produce measurable results.</p>
<p>Not every organisation is wasting marketing dollars with the dream of viral success or there would be a large pile of unemployed marketing managers out there.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re all getting used to the rapid evolution of social, the ways to manage it and nurture it across the organisation, and varying dependant on the culture and size of the business.</p>
<p>Saying that social marketing doesn&#8217;t work is too large a statement but warning against the dream of viral success and encouraging marketing teams to measure I can agree with whole heartedly.</p>
<p>The numbers don&#8217;t always go down; if you&#8217;re measuring the right numbers.  And whilst it&#8217;s true that we can now measure a lot, maybe we can sometimes be distracted by all this data and not see the wood for the trees.</p>
<p>As someone recently said at a conference I attended &#8216;Analytics can&#8217;t save us from stupidity&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Biggins</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2011/07/why-social-marketing-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-347</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Biggins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2011 10:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=1972#comment-347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And another thing. I print millions of leaflets for Jet2.com on old fashioned paper. They don&#039;t have a Twitter account. Nor do Ryanair who everybody claims to hate with a venom but flies with in droves because they are cheap. They both make pots of money.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And another thing. I print millions of leaflets for Jet2.com on old fashioned paper. They don&#8217;t have a Twitter account. Nor do Ryanair who everybody claims to hate with a venom but flies with in droves because they are cheap. They both make pots of money.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Biggins</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2011/07/why-social-marketing-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-346</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Biggins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2011 10:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=1972#comment-346</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Social media hasn&#039;t supplanted direct mail, TV, radio, print or anything else. It&#039;s a new tool in the toolkit n(or toy in the toybox if you prefer.) The biggest influence on direct mail is not new media, but the price of stamps. New media is popular not primarily for its access to interpersonal relationships or people power. It&#039;s cheap.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Social media hasn&#8217;t supplanted direct mail, TV, radio, print or anything else. It&#8217;s a new tool in the toolkit n(or toy in the toybox if you prefer.) The biggest influence on direct mail is not new media, but the price of stamps. New media is popular not primarily for its access to interpersonal relationships or people power. It&#8217;s cheap.</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel Sarbutts</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2011/07/why-social-marketing-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-345</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Sarbutts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2011 10:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=1972#comment-345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s possible that the author is disregarding context. Social media content that is obviously promotional or self-serving is surely as subject to the recipient filtering it out as effectively as we do all advertising, ie a lot.
My eye was caught by this piece in the Economist which describes the powerful use of social media to share information in the aftermath of the Mumbai bomb last week which suggests that the old line about the &quot;A lie is half way round the world before the truth has his trousers on&quot; is no longer true. http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2011/07/online-crisis-management?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/awebofsupport 
Context is everything when considering why/how something goes viral.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s possible that the author is disregarding context. Social media content that is obviously promotional or self-serving is surely as subject to the recipient filtering it out as effectively as we do all advertising, ie a lot.<br />
My eye was caught by this piece in the Economist which describes the powerful use of social media to share information in the aftermath of the Mumbai bomb last week which suggests that the old line about the &#8220;A lie is half way round the world before the truth has his trousers on&#8221; is no longer true. <a href="http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2011/07/online-crisis-management?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/awebofsupport" rel="nofollow">http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2011/07/online-crisis-management?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/awebofsupport</a><br />
Context is everything when considering why/how something goes viral.</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas Moser</title>
		<link>http://timharford.com/2011/07/why-social-marketing-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-344</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Moser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2011 08:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timharford.com/?p=1972#comment-344</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What is a Twitter?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is a Twitter?</p>
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